blackhat for life

December 18, 2005

(hack4.txt) A PHC PRODUCTION: The Real Scriptkiddies

Filed under: PHC, whiteh8 — antisec @ 9:13 pm

[Posted to the ‘full-disclosure’ list.]

Does anyone find it strange that the talentless scriptkiddy Ron DuFresne is banging on about “kids this” and “kids that”? I certainly do. This clueless moron is in no position to speak down on or scold those he obviously knows nothing about.

If you search google for his name, you can easily see the technically inept scriptkiddy Ron DuFresne making a monkey out of himself:

This guy knows nothing beyond 1980’s security policy construction and point-and-click firewall operation. He makes many technical blunders in his posts and displays an uncanny knack for sounding like a total dumbass.

For those out of the loop, the scriptkiddy Ron DuFresne was a former member of the defacement group known as GForce Pakistan, albeit only for a month or so at most. What’s sad is that he has admitted this in the past, but justifies it as some kind of adventure “for research purposes.” He also denies having defaced any websites. Still, makes you wonder, doesn’t it?

I also see many other technically incompetent people/leeches on this list who are making unqualified assertions that so-and-so are scriptkids, that so-and-so don’t know their stuff, that so-and-so are attention deprived…

If you can answer ‘yes’ to all of the questions below, then by all means feel free to think of yourself as equal to or better than these ~el8 guys. Otherwise, please stop speaking down to people who are obviously much more technically skilled than your ignorance will ever allow you to be.
* Do you know how to program in C? Are you intimately familiar with ISO C89? C99? While other people in your neighbourhood were out partying, were you sitting at home in bed making an almost biblical study of the POSIX standards? What about those from The Open Group?

* Do you know how to write hash tables? Balanced trees? Do you know the art of algorithms? Do you know Knuth’s work like the back of your hand? Did you teach yourself everything about computers that one would otherwise only learn by paying thousands of dollars for in Computer Science tuition?

* Do you know how to juggle assembly code in your head for multiple architectures, such as MIPS, SPARC, x86? Do you understand the peculiarities of each architecture down to the nittiest, grittiest details? Can you optimize your own assembly routines? Can you take advantage of things such as Pentium instruction pairing or the delay slots in various RISC architectures? Do you understand the deal with the I-Cache on MIPS? Are you fluent in assembly language? Hell, do you even know what SPARC stands for? Quadrants in PA-RISC, make sense?

* Do you know how to write your own exploits? Do you know how to audit software with surgical precision for the most intricate bugs imaginable? Do you know how to take advantage of buffer overflows? Do you know how to exploit off-by-one errors on a little-endian machine? Do you know about integer overflows and signedness issues? Can you exploit format string vulnerabilities? Can you gain control of a process vulnerable to a heap overflow via a deep knowledge of the malloc implementation on the target host? Do you know how to bypass the “security” afforded by crap like Openwall, StackGuard, PaX? Or is your knowledge of these things limited to the papers that non-hackers publish? You probably think the people trying to help the security community with bullshit patches/fixes like this are hackers, when in fact no hacker would ever publish any such thing that aims to improve security.

* Have you studied the UNIX kernel with as much fervour as some would have for physical pursuits such as basketball or baseball? Do you know the data structures and organization in the kernels of various operating systems? Have you read books on UNIX internals cover to cover? Do you know how Linux works under the hood? Can you write your own kernel modules for both defense and offense? Ever written a kld on FreeBSD? Can you write a device driver for a peripheral that your OS doesn’t support? Can you find flaws in kernel src trees that allow you to compromise a machine given local access?

* What do you know about evading (N)IDS? Your knowledge isn’t limited to what Thomas Ptacek & Tim Newsham have said years ago, right? Surely you don’t rely on tools written by people like Dug Song who like to think of themselves as hackers, when in fact they are traitors to the underground, assuming they were ever a part of it to begin with.

* What do you know about defeating firewalls? What techniques have you innovated and pioneered on your own? What tools have you written that allow you to toy with firewalls? Hell, the fucktard security community is probably limited to lameass crap like Firewalk.

* What do you know about web security? Do you sit back and laugh at the “cross-site scripting” revolution governed by an idea that has been around well before the CSS/XSS sensation that literally blew the dumbass security community apart? Must’ve wasted a lot of brain cells with that gigantic stretch of the imagination. Do you laugh at all these “SQL injection” papers and how most of them overlook the blatantly obvious: they have you believe you have to fumble around with all kinds of convoluted queries to achieve something that can be done with minimal typing if only they’d read the fucking documentation for various DBMS. Their CGI experts like RFP and Zenomorph call certain script conditions non-exploitable, e.g. when you can’t get arguments supplied to a binary that you’ve managed to trick a Perl script into running — RFP mentions this in his Phrack article — yet any moron can easily figure out that you can use the POST method, make the script run /usr/bin/perl for instance, and have it run a script of your choice that is fed as stdin from the HTTP request’s POST data. Oh God, sorry for pushing the realm of web security forward with this INCREDIBLY COMPLEX revelation.

* Have you written your own tools that exploit protocol weaknesses? Have you written your own tools for routing protocol weaknesses, e.g. RIP, BGP? Have you written your own tools that play games with DNS? Have you written your own ARP cache poisoning / mitm tools? Your own tools for shit like icmp redirects and router advertisements? Can you write a tool that will exploit the TCP sequence number prediction + IP spoofing vulnerability of older days? Or can you only mock Mitnick for his 1994 attack, calling him a scriptkiddy? Or utter useless banter about ISNs and cookies that you digested from some textfile? Who are you kidding? Fuck, have you read all 3 volumes of the glorious TCP/IP Illustrated, or can you just mumble some useless crap about a 3-way handshake? Do you know Net/3 code? TCP algorithms? TCP extensions? Perhaps you’re some fucking security expert because you’ve memorized /etc/services — a walking fucking getservbyport, a la 70% of the Vuln-Dev subscription base.


I have seen the ~el8 guys cover the full spectrum of everything discussed above. 95% of the people calling them scriptkids probably can’t even code helloworld.c.

Further ranting for those who are so quick to judge…

Are you just a fucking whitehat leech who knows nothing more than how to use tools written by others? Using techniques and exploits that most likely originated in the playground of blackhats known as the computer underground. More likely than not you’re a fucking scriptkid who only knows how to do mundane and trivial crap like configuring ACLs on a Cisco router or some half-assed product such as Firewall-1.

You likely are so ignorant that you believe anyone who compromises machines is a clueless scriptkiddy like yourself. You likely are so idiotic that you believe that Bugtraq and CERT will protect you from the latest 0day exploits.

You think Apache 1.3.26 can’t be compromised remotely with one of four two year old Apache remotes that haven’t even been hinted at on the security lists. You think sendmail is (now) remotely secure because what you don’t see on Bugtraq doesn’t exist. Qmail. ProFTPd. My God, you people are so fucking out of it. People report intrusions on their machines and you dumbfucks immediately conclude it’s done by some public vulnerability, e.g. OpenSSL. That’s right, because in your ignorant bliss there are no skilled people out there who would actually use their exploits to hack. Narrow-minded fools. Scriptkiddies.

You know nothing of what lurks beneath the surface glamour of the corrupt security industry/community. Your only resort is to call these people kids.

Trust me, they laugh at you clueless imbeciles. They laugh at your feeble attempts to manipulate hacking so that it becomes some fucking ethical or philanthropic pursuit. They laugh at your “hacker vs. cracker” debates. They laugh at anyone who thinks hacking isn’t about compromising computer systems.

Who are the scriptkids now? You’re outgunned and outclassed. Take a nap and retire, you pathetic leeches.

The scriptkids like Ron DuFresne and Anodyne Perspective are likely going to snap after reading this, so I’m sitting back looking forward to the imminent outbursts from these scriptkids whose only rebuttals will be in the…

“I have my fingers in my ears, can’t hear you kids NANANANANAN JAJAJAJAJAJA itiththdsfhg grow up immature children, get a girlfriend HHSHee KkakakKAkka pffffttt damn kiddies.”

… range.

All “dox” dropped on the lists have been fake. They have been engineered by people either making false assumptions or trying to get their “foes” in trouble. Most of the phony ~el8 members lists mention people that have been attacked by ~el8, ironically enough. Put one and one together. There is only valid “info” for one of those poor souls, anywayz.

It’s time for an underground revolution. You all quote The Mentor’s Manifesto in your misguided ethics rants; alas, The Mentor was an active hacker, in the true, modern sense of the word. Stop being brainwashed ye hackers. Keep your souls untarnished.

It’s time to bring the corrupt security industry to its knees.


Filed under: PHC, whiteh8 — antisec @ 9:12 pm

Don’t be confused by the evil words of whitehats. They dont really care about security, all they care about is money. They are hypocritical mercenaries that will do whatever suits _their_ interests. The common whitehat belief, is that we should pity corporations and private entities for not having the knowledge to secure themselves, and as such should feel some sort of moral duty to use our knowledge and abilities to aid them in the protection of their assets. Make no mistake however, these companies care for nothing more than their bottom line. None of them really want to secure anything all they want is a scapegoat, someone they can point the finger at when shit hits the fan and say, “It’s his fault Mr. CEO, that’s why our client databases got posted on a public hacker website.”. Let’s examine the converse side of the situation, do you think for a second that senior level executives in companies who’ve managed to figure out the system to the extent where they can embezzle, swindle, and screw good people out of millions and millions of dollars totally unjustly (and yet entirely legally), would feel any sort of obligation whatsoever to use the knowledge that they had gained to facilitate those who did not have that knowledge in obtaining what it is they were after ($$$$).

Why should I feel at all inclined to protect the assets of people who have more than likely obtained those assets by ‘morally’ unscrupulous actions. In all actuality, we have established that contrary to what prominent people in the business community will have you believe there is very little (if any) ethics involved in the business model of your average supercompany, (Worldcom, Enron, Tyco, etc.) which more often than not employs the “Let’s fuck them, before they fuck us” mentality. I challenge whitehats, any and all, to give me a single viable reason as to why I should feel compelled to help a bunch of self-interested, self-absorbed, financial barbarians protect assets they probably shouldnt have in the first place. Why should I care if sl4ppyj4ck the script kiddie makes life miserable for a bunch of assholes trying to cash in on the inherent gullability of the average schlep, who cant find people skilled enough to secure their machines without subscribing to bugtraq? See the whitehat community will also have you believe that we need to make the information superhighway safe for “Joe Q. Websurfer”, when in all practicality “Joe Q. Websurfer” is only going to be targeted by script kiddies, who would never have the means of causing him any grief if powerful exploit code wasn’t given to anyone with a compiler. If the information I’m providing to a person, for whatever reason, is being wasted or undervalued, why should I continue to give this person (or group of people e.g. SECURITY COMMUNITY) this information?

So we must ask ourselves the following question: Who is really benefitting from full disclosure practices, the companies that will most likely not even patch holes after they’re released, and even if they do remain vulnerable to countless number of “0day” bugs that will remain undisclosed. Or is it really the under- talented, overrated, glory seeking, self-proclaimed “Security Guru” provocaturs of anything that will increase their profit margins, and notariaty, at a rate directly proportional to the amount of security FUD that exists on public full disclosure mailing lists.

The message is simple:

-Someone who’s sick of supporting an unrighteous cause.


Filed under: PHC, whiteh8 — antisec @ 9:09 pm

The definition:

hackĀ·er1 Pronunciation Key (h k r)
n. Informal
1. One who is proficient at using or programming a computer; a computer buff.
2. One who uses programming skills to gain illegal access to a computer network or file.
3. One who enthusiastically pursues a game or sport: a weekend tennis hacker.

Historically, the definitions of words in a language changes over time. I’m sure there is someone out there who is educated and can provide me with the term for this phenomenon; and whoever you are, you can go fuck yourself. I’m not bragging to be a scholar, because that is something that I’m not. However, I am a hacker, and because of this I can make the following statements.

1) A hacker is someone who hacks.
2) Hacking is comprimising computers/computer networks.

A hacker is not someone who writes socalled “useful code” (operating systems, applications, etc). Hackers write tools to aide with the comprimise of computer networks. And hackers _use_ those tools; they do not sell them to the highest bidder, and they do not use them to make a name for theirself so that they can then become a “security consultant”.

Silly rhetoric aside — the important point is this: Hackers hack.

If you do not hack, you are not a hacker. That simple.

On a semi-related note. . .

Anyone who claims to be an “ethical hacker” is a moron. Hacking has nothing to do with ethics. There is no “ethical hacking” or “unethical hacking”; there is only hacking. If you have to dance around the definition of what a hacker is, or you have to dance around the definition of what hacking is, then what you do is not hacking, and you are not a hacker.

-a PHC member

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